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Josh Konigsberg: Okay.
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Josh Konigsberg: Josh. Konigsberg. Here with law, firm marketing pros, let me start over Josh. Konigsberg. Here, with behind the bench podcast brought to you by the law firm marketing pros super excited today about our guest, Dr. William Attaway.
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Josh Konigsberg: Quick background. He's a leading executive coach for high performing
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Josh Konigsberg: agency owners and entrepreneurs leading the way to unprecedented success.
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Josh Konigsberg: With nearly 3 decades of experience, Dr. Attaway's transformative executive coaching empowers leaders to achieve remarkable success in their agencies and beyond.
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Josh Konigsberg: He works closely with clients to develop tailored strategies
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Josh Konigsberg: that address specific needs and goals, ensuring that they are equipped to lead with confidence and achieve sustainable growth. He has published 2 books, one lead leadership Lessons from the not so minor profits, and his most recent book, Catalytic Leadership, 12 Keys to becoming an international. I'm sorry.
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Josh Konigsberg: Catalytic leadership. 12 keys to becoming an intentional leader who makes a difference.
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Josh Konigsberg: Dr. Attaway, so nice to see you today. Thanks for coming.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Josh thanks so much for having me on the show. It's really an honor to be here.
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Josh Konigsberg: So let's jump in.
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Josh Konigsberg: tremendous introduction. Just so impressed with what you've been able to achieve. So impressed with your library.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: So.
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Josh Konigsberg: So. If I if I had, if I've read a 3rd of that, I'd probably be a lot smarter than what I am today.
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Josh Konigsberg: your your journey from Academia.
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Josh Konigsberg: To leadership. Coaching has been extraordinary.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Okay.
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Josh Konigsberg: Can you share your background and the experiences that led you to focus on helping leaders grow and succeed.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: That's a great question, Josh. It really goes back to when I was 15 years old. If you can believe it, I was invited to attend my 1st leadership conference by a high school teacher who saw something in me that I did not see in myself. I hopped a plane, got to that conference and was absolutely captivated by what I learned.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: the power of leadership to impact a team, an organization, a business, a firm for good or for bad.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You know, a leadership is influence. It's nothing more, nothing less. John Maxwell's right. And if we use that leadership gift in a way that is for the benefit of other people.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: The sky's the limit. But so often I watch leaders become the lid. And so my career started in corporate. I moved from that into the nonprofit sector working through the local church. But for almost 30 years I have been coaching leaders in a variety of different contexts from C-suite leaders to solopreneurs, from attorneys to people in government contractors, and everything in between trying to help them understand how to get out of their own way
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and helping them to see what they can't see, because you can't see the whole picture when you're in the frame, and that's what I do. I come alongside and help them see those things so they can fix them so they can move forward into the future they know is possible.
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Josh Konigsberg: So starting at 15. So you were a leader as well as being in academia, obviously with a Phd, so can you talk about how that kind of transpired from from. You know you're obviously at 15 years old you go to this conference, you love this, but then you go on to get a Phd.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Absolutely. You know, my academic training, that that was the path that I loved. I love to learn as evidenced by the books
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: constantly taking in information. If you look at my strength, finder assessment, my number one is input, my number 2 is learner. And that's really, that's how you would characterize me. That's what fires me up, not just learning and taking in, but then processing it in such a way that I can make it available to other people. I laughingly tell my clients I read all these books so you don't have to. I want to synthesize that information
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and make it available and accessible to you in a way that's going to help you with your firm with your business, so that it's going to help you become a better leader. Right. So what Academia taught me, you know, in both in my studies and then in teaching and in college and university settings for
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: gosh! Nearly 15 years. What that taught me was how to take the complex and make it accessible make it simpler, so that people can grab onto it. Complexity is incredibly intimidating for most people. And when it comes to leadership and mindset.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: these are very large topics, and so many business owners and entrepreneurs come into this. And they're like, Yeah, that's too big. I can't wrap my head around that, or they'll take a little bite and say, Okay, I'll master this one little piece.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I want to make the complex simple.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I want to make it accessible so that you can then take it and apply it. Information transforms no one information applied
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: that leads to transformation.
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Josh Konigsberg: Oh, well said so good! And thank you for that. So it's like an aggregation and consolidation of information that you can regurgitate. So that's just so. Well put. Thank you so much for doing that. I mean, really. So, you know, and I've seen you speak, and you know we met at a couple conferences and just tremendous. So let's talk about the book a little bit catalytic leadership. So you talk about how leaders
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Josh Konigsberg: are they? I think the term you use is ignite transformation. Right? So for attorneys growing law firms aggressively like so many of my clients, what are the key traits
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Josh Konigsberg: a catalytic leader can use to inspire their teams to scale the practice.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You know, I think the 1st one that I would put, and this is what I call the non-negotiable of catalytic leadership. It's to pursue and maintain a teachable spirit. What I mean by that is, you are constantly in learning mode.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You're listening more than you speak.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and I know for a lot of leaders. That's a challenge, because we have a lot of things we want to say. I'm not immune to that, but I find that I don't learn as much when I'm talking as I do when I'm listening. And that's really true, for all of us.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Choosing to be teachable is just that it's a choice. This is a choice that I make every day, Josh. Every morning I wake up and I make a decision before I'm ever in my 1st meeting, my 1st session, I make a decision. I want to be the most teachable person in every environment I'm in that day.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I want to listen more than I speak.
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Josh Konigsberg: Amazing, amazing.
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Josh Konigsberg: So for me, something that really resonated in the book. And I've got some bookmarks here. So it specifically for me.
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Josh Konigsberg: that really resonated. Chapter 3, which is titled Actively Pursue intentional growth. And I'm going to go and read. Just recite just one paragraph here. So and this for me. I've been saying this forever. It seems you never stop being a student. Right? So so you know. And here's what you said. I believe every leader needs intentional and intentional growth plan that is designed around their wiring that helps them develop
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Josh Konigsberg: their strengths and leverage their contributions to the team and organization they lead. So just talk a little bit deeper about that, because again it just resonated so much with me.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Yeah. So your listeners went to school for a long time, like I did right like they went, not just to college, but to graduate school right? And you get your your Jd, I mean, this is this, is you intentionally designed a career path based on what you learned. But is that where the education stops?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: No, because they have to do continual development, right? They have to. I mean, that's that's part of life. It's part of their journey. Yeah, that is a small fraction of the potential that you have to continue to learn and grow.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I never want to stop that. And I put together an intentional plan every December for the following year.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: What are 2 areas that I need to grow in?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: What are 2 things that I need to learn more about
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: what are 2 areas that I need to. I want to really see the ball move up the field this year.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I'm going to be intentional about that, and I'm going to pre-decide what those 2 things are, and then I'm going to execute. I'm going to have a plan that I execute starting in January, and running all the way through December.
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Josh Konigsberg: Love it.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: That intentionality of a growth plan is one that your listeners can take and apply, not just checking the boxes to make sure they get their continual development credits right? But to say, Hey! As a leader, as a business owner.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: as somebody who influences other people and leads a team.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Where do I need to grow, put together a plan.
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Josh Konigsberg: Yeah, so, so well said so.
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Josh Konigsberg: Oftentimes I'll see that law firm owners are a little resistant to change and definitely slow to adopt. Right? So
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Josh Konigsberg: so whether it's adopting new technology or rethinking client acquisition strategies, how can catalytic?
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Josh Konigsberg: How can?
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Josh Konigsberg: So we should cut that out? So how can a catalytic leader effectively overcome this resistance and drive motivation.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I think it's important to understand that growth only happens on the other side of change.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Most of us resist change. That's not our idea.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: We don't mind change. That's our idea. If we decide we want a new sofa, we'll go get it. Because that was our idea. And then we like that change. We decide to go get a new cell phone or a new laptop, or to implement a new policy in the personnel manual. That's our choice. We decided that we don't mind that. But if somebody else forces change on us
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: well, that's when we resist. But what we have to understand as catalytic leaders who really want to make a difference in your firm. You have to understand that growth only happens on the other side of change, doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results. Our friends at Aa have a word for that right insanity. Right? You have to understand that in order to grow, you have to change. It's non-negotiable.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Now, most of us are only going to change when the pain of change is less than the pain of staying the same.
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Josh Konigsberg: That's right. That's right.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: We gotta be MoD.
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Josh Konigsberg: On, that.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: That's where evaluation comes in, Josh, and that's where we have to really be honest with ourselves, you know. Every week I do a Weekly Review.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and this is, I sit down as appointment with myself, for in my case it's on Sunday evenings, and I look back over the previous week, and I asked myself 3 questions, what were the biggest wins this week.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and I celebrate those wins because most of us skip right past that. You focus. You get more of what you focus on. I'm going to focus on wins. First, st because I want more of those
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I'm going to celebrate those I'm going to write them down.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Second thing, where did I swing and miss this week?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Right?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Where? Where were my fails this week? I'm going to write those down, too.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: 3, rd the next time I'm in a similar situation.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: what would I do? Different next time? And I process through that learning during the weekly Review.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Then I look forward, and I say.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I know, looking at the appointments, I've got about 85% of my week is pre-decided. I know what the appointments are going to be
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: okay
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: in those appointments. What do I need to prepare in advance to bring the best version of myself into those meetings?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: What do I need to to think through to process so that I can bring that best version.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I pre-decide that during the weekly review meeting what that time does for me. It's 60, 90 min. What that time does for me is, it gives me the opportunity to process my learning so that they're available to me, going forward and to prepare and block time to make sure that I'm coming into the environments. I'm going into the best I possibly can.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You're listeners can do the same thing.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You think back over the previous week, and you say, Hey, where did I win this week? Celebrate those things, capture them? It's really easy to run right past that.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: But when you evaluate
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: what this does is, it gives you the ability and the capacity to maintain that teachable spirit, and to move forward, not afraid of change.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: but instead, seeing the growth on the other side of it.
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Josh Konigsberg: Amazing. That's such. That's gold, I mean, that's such a good nugget for anybody listening.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Just that one piece is worth the price of admissions. I like to say so.
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Josh Konigsberg: And and that kind of leads right into the next question. And maybe this actually already answers the next question without me even asking it, and that is so, you know, I. Many attorneys struggle to balance their working in their business right? That is.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Yeah.
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Josh Konigsberg: Handling the case management right versus working on their business, and that would be developing strategies.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Thank you.
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Josh Konigsberg: What advice would you give to leaders about balancing the big picture versus the day to day?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I think that's a struggle for all of us. I struggle with that in my practice. Right? The reality is, nothing changes until you change it.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: you get to choose. And so what I do during that weekly review is, I'm actually going to time block sections of time in my week, sometimes an hour, sometimes 2, sometimes 3. If I can squeeze it in, I'm going to prioritize time to work on my business on my practice. That's the only way that's going to happen. If you think oh, I'll have some time this week, I'll fit that in. You're going to get to Friday at 5 o'clock, or whenever you end your week.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and you're going to say, Oh, man, I didn't get that in this week, maybe next week.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and guess what next week will be a repeat.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You've got to pre-decide. You've got to choose. This is important enough to prioritize. You prioritize. What matters most to you. We all do.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I'm going to challenge you to prioritize the strategic thinking that your firm deserves.
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Josh Konigsberg: And so simply said, today I often hear this quote what you're not changing. You're choosing.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: That's exactly right.
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Josh Konigsberg: I think this is probably the most important question for me
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Josh Konigsberg: and my my listeners, and that is so. Oftentimes there's multiple partners in a law firm. Right? So
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Josh Konigsberg: with the big egos that some of sometimes we run into there can often be conflict. Right? Yeah. So how can attorneys apply the principles of catalytic leadership, to avoid conflict
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Josh Konigsberg: and resolve the issues to continue to grow in a healthy environment.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: That's a fantastic question. I would frame it this way, and and I realize that in the world of attorneys the whole idea of being a fierce advocate, right? A passionate advocate is baked in right. And so there's an adversarial mindset that's just part and parcel
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: in this world. I'm going to invite you when it comes to relationships with partners, to think about this a little bit differently. I'm going to invite you to use this frame
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: instead of me versus you.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I want you to think about it as me and you versus the problem.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: And what this does that simple framing? If you begin to think about it that way. You're now on the same team as your partner. Right? You now have the opportunity to say, hey, you know what? It's not me against you. It's us against this problem. Can you help me solve this.
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Josh Konigsberg: Hey? We've got this issue.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: And instead of and it's your fault we've got this issue.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I need your help. Can you help me solve this?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I believe together we can get to the solution side of this. I believe together we can resolve it.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Can I get your help?
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Josh Konigsberg: Men.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: That one frame can absolutely change how you think about conflict.
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Josh Konigsberg: So good, such great advice, so I can use that.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I hope so. I talk about this all the time, because I think so often. The conflict that we have in our lives is voidable.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: It has to do with the mindset that we are bringing into that relationship or into that conversation.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Right? If you walk in with a teachable spirit.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: you're going to walk in open-handed.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You're going to walk in saying, what can I learn here? Maybe I don't know everything. Maybe there's there's information I don't have yet.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and that's where me and you versus the problem.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You walk in with that posture. That's a game changer.
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Josh Konigsberg: Love it
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Josh Konigsberg: so with all the years of coaching experience that you have. What are the most common barriers that leaders face when scaling their organizations or law firms? Right? And
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Josh Konigsberg: how can an aggressive, growth-minded attorney overcome these challenges.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: One of the biggest problems that I see in working with clients is when you start something.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: you have to do everything at the beginning.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You have to touch everything. Everything comes across your desk. Every decision comes to you, and you're at what I call you're at the center of the spider web. Every strand is connected to you.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: As you grow, you have to hire other people to help you.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You hire other attorneys, you hire paralegals, you hire support staff.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and those people are looking to you to lead. Now, leadership's a different skill
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: than just getting things done when you were an individual contributor, a solo practitioner. You had to do it all. But when you're leading a team, that's a different skill set
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: understanding that and understanding that you now have to develop the skill of leadership
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: separately from the skill of practicing law.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: That's it's just a different skill. You now have the opportunity to learn 2 skills, not just one. And when you do that you step into those relationships understanding my job here is not to get things done as the leader. My job is to get things done through other people
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: that that's a shift. And I see a lot of leaders who don't make it because they can't get
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: wanting to touch everything right and make all the decisions.
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Josh Konigsberg: Right right control right
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Exactly. If you can make that turn.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and you can understand, hey? The best thing for the firm is for every decision not to come to me. The best thing for the firm is for me to not be at the center of the spider web. If you can make that turn in William's opinion you are in the top 10%,
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: because most people don't, and they become the lid or the cap on their firm's growth.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: It will not grow beyond your level of leadership. If you can make this turn, you're immediately in the top 10%.
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Josh Konigsberg: So
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Josh Konigsberg: if you want to be in the top 10% of all law firms for your category of law.
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Josh Konigsberg: and that would what I would be, I would consider an aggressive growth. Minded attorney. These are the principles, really, that you need to need to apply
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Josh Konigsberg: 100%. Okay. So growing. Your leadership is something you will never regret, and that
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Josh Konigsberg: is something that you can put in your learning plan for 2025.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Exactly. Right?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Okay, so.
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Josh Konigsberg: and leadership growth. And and I think it does. I don't think it matters whether it's leadership or anything else that you're trying to master comes with challenges and setbacks. Right? So
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Josh Konigsberg: team dynamics, financial pressure, whatever it is, what strategies in the book
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Josh Konigsberg: can leaders really use to maintain and motivate resilience during the setbacks.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You know, one of the principles that I talk about in the book is to never stop leading change.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: And and that's that's difficult for some.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: because this this idea of always being ready to adapt and to pivot is uncomfortable.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You never settle into a maintenance, mindset. You're always
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: always reading the room. You're always reading the circumstances and the situations in the market, and you have to adapt and adjust to them. That's a big piece of this, Josh, to be to be so focused on that mindset that you never stop. But honestly, I think the last principle in the book is the most difficult.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and if I could challenge your listeners with one, it would be this one.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: It's that leading yourself is the most difficult thing you'll ever do.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You are the hardest person you will ever lead, and the reason for that is because our capacity for self deception
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and and rationalization is pretty much limitless. In my opinion, we can rationalize and say, Oh, well, you know, that's because of that. Oh, well, you know, that's because of that. Okay.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: that type of behavior doesn't get you where you want to go. Learning to lead yourself well
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: is a skill that every person listening can do, and would be well advised to do.
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Josh Konigsberg: So I would often say to my children that
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Josh Konigsberg: as human beings we can justify just about any behavior, right? So true does not make it right.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Right.
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Josh Konigsberg: Justify it. Now.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: That's right. Is that helpful to do? I mean, this is the question I'm always asking, you know. Is that helpful? When you do that. Does that get you where you want to go?
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Josh Konigsberg: That's right.
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Josh Konigsberg: So developing future leaders within a firm is also critical for growth.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Yes.
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Josh Konigsberg: What strategies do you recommend for law firm owners for mentoring their associates and empowering an emergency? I'm sorry.
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Josh Konigsberg: What strategies do you recommend for law firm owners
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Josh Konigsberg: for mentoring and empowering emerging leaders within their firm. Whether that be a lead paralegal or someone who's going to be a lead paralegal or an associate to become a partner.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I think the 1st thing I would say is that it's not just going to happen. You have to acknowledge that you're not going to wake up one day and realize, oh, wow! I've mentored all these people. I didn't mean for that to happen, but here it is, and they've grown and become who they wanted to be. It doesn't happen accidentally. You have to be intentional, and that means you have to have a plan. You have to evaluate where you are in this.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and then you have to evaluate where you want to be.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Do you want to be at a place where you are empowering other people where you're empowering people to take the next step in their development, and seeing that paralegal move to a different height, seeing that associate become a partner. Great.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Then what does it take to get there?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: It takes time. You have to invest time in those people.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Right? You have to have a plan. There needs to be a trajectory, a growth plan for them as well, and you can help them to develop that.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: But it starts with conversations.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I do one-on-ones with every one of my direct reports every week.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: not because I'm bored and have nothing else to do, because I want to listen, and I want to hear where they want to go.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: because my job as a leader is to help them get from where they are to where they want to be inside of our team. The same thing is true
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: for your attorneys. Listening in your firms, you have the opportunity to invest in and empower young and emerging leaders
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: to take the next step toward where they want to be inside of your ecosystem.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You simply have to choose to prioritize it. And again it goes back to time blocking to pre-decide where I'm going to spend time this week. Could you spend a lunch hour and gather 2 or 3 or 4 of those young leaders together
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and say, Hey, we're going to meet once a month over lunch, and we're going to discuss some great books about leadership. We're going to discuss some great books about personal development. We're going to discuss some great books about the latest advances in law in our field. Whatever it is. I'm going to pour time into you and have discussions with you.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: It takes a lunch a month.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Is that worth your time?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I've always seen it to be well worth the investment.
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Josh Konigsberg: It has to be a a tremendous return on the investment of time. That's what I'll call a great time trade right.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Yes, absolutely.
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Josh Konigsberg: Is there any references or resources in the book specific to what you're discussing.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You know, one of the tools that I use with clients, and that I have begun to use with teams is teaching them about an assessment called the Working Genius Assessment. I've been using this for
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: close to 5 years now since it was 1st in Beta, and this is an assessment that helps leaders to understand the wiring of the team that they lead where they bring the most value into the team setting. It's not a personality assessment as much as it is. Where are their areas of genius? Where's their zone of genius in the landscape of work?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: When you understand that when you walk through that assessment with your team, and you understand how everyone is wired. Then you're inviting the right people into the right conversations, and you hear their dreams.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: and you see their goals then, and only then, can you help them achieve them.
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Josh Konigsberg: It's so good. I saw you speak on this, and it is a tremendous tool.
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Josh Konigsberg: So we just you discuss this in the book and we'll talk a little bit more about how
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Josh Konigsberg: our listeners can learn more about this from you. I got one more question before we jump into our lightning, round which is my favorite part. So are there any additional nuggets of wisdom
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Josh Konigsberg: or insight that you can share with aggressive growth minded attorneys who are looking to take their law firm to the next level.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I believe that it is really easy to fall into the trap of focusing so much on revenue and more cases and more work. And and where am I positioned among my peers? It's so easy to focus on those metrics that are really easy to measure
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: that we don't take the time to focus on the metrics that I believe will make an even bigger impact.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: And that's what we've talked about today.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Around how you lead your team.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: right, how you empower them, how you invest in them
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: that can have an exponential impact on your bottom line. It can have an exponential impact on how you serve clients on the revenue
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: that you see your firm produce.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: because it's far beyond what you can do. You've now multiplied yourself.
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Josh Konigsberg: Sure.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: When you make that investment, it's so easy to look at this and say, I don't have time for that. I don't have time for that. I got to focus on chasing the next case. I get that.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: But if you will take the time, if you will make this a priority.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: you will see fruit over time.
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Josh Konigsberg: Good stuff so good. So
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Josh Konigsberg: I want to move into or pivot to the lightning round, which is where people get to know, like and trust you. So I'm just gonna fire off 10 questions, one at a time. And just whatever answer pops into your head you can answer. And it's just a lot of fun. Casual. Okay?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I love it.
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Josh Konigsberg: So what never fails to make you laugh.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Seinfeld.
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Josh Konigsberg: Best. Well, there you go! There it is, love it best comedy ever, for, in my opinion, so best
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Josh Konigsberg: best compliment you ever got.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Oh, my goodness!
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You make me think you create an environment where it's safe to think and process.
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Josh Konigsberg: I like that a person who you would trade places with for a day.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: John Maxwell been a mentor to me for a long time.
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Josh Konigsberg: Amazing.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Would be amazing.
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Josh Konigsberg: Yeah, what is your guilty pleasure?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Probably strawberry ice cream.
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Josh Konigsberg: What's the biggest risk you ever took.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Asking my wife to marry me.
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Josh Konigsberg: How long has it been.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: We will celebrate 27 years in a few weeks.
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Josh Konigsberg: Congratulations.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Thanks.
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Josh Konigsberg: Worst piece of advice you ever got.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: You can do anything you want to do.
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Josh Konigsberg: Who's what do you wish? You were better at dealing with.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: The internal emotions and feelings of other people.
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Josh Konigsberg: What is one thing that you would like to change about yourself?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: It'd be great to have more hair.
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Josh Konigsberg: You have a flight to Turkey.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Yeah, I hear. That's where that's where it's happening.
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Josh Konigsberg: I think I know the answer to this next question, but I'll ask, what are you most passionate about?
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I'm most passionate about seeing leaders thrive, seeing them achieve their capacity and their potential.
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Josh Konigsberg: Yeah, wonderful.
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Josh Konigsberg: So tell us something that most people don't know about. You.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: I've spent several seasons on the staff of archaeological digs in the Middle East, working in Jordan.
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Josh Konigsberg: Wow! Amazing!
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Josh Konigsberg: Great! Well, good stuff.
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Josh Konigsberg: Dr. Attaway, please tell our listeners the best way to reach you before you do that. I want to highly recommend catalytic leadership. You can get it online and Amazon.
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Josh Konigsberg: And how? What's the best way for our listeners to reach you.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: So you can go to catalyticleadership.net. That's the home base for everything that we do from the podcast that I host, that you were gracious enough to be a guest on Josh. Fantastic conversation there, check out that episode, the podcast that we host, the the online membership community that I do the coaching that I provide for leaders for entrepreneurs and business leaders who want to go to a next level.
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Josh Konigsberg: Great great stuff. Well, thanks again, Dr. Attaway, for joining us today on behind the bench, podcast let me say that again, thanks again, Dr. Attaway for joining us today on the behind the bench podcast brought to you by law, firm marketing pros bye for now
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Josh Konigsberg: and before I stop the recording.
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Josh Konigsberg: Can you give me a quick quote about our your experience on this today for press release.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: Yeah, let me think about that for a second. So
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: My conversation with Josh was inspiring and uplifting
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: the con, the the questions and conversation
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: brought out ideas and thoughts that I have not shared on any other show.
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Josh Konigsberg: Wow, thank you. That's accomplishment.
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Dr. William Attaway | Catalytic Leadership: No, I mean it. This is probably the 2 I'm probably getting close to 200 shows that I've guested on, and I really like your format. I like the I like that a whole lot. The lightning round especially that was great.
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Josh Konigsberg: Let me ask your opinion. I'm gonna stop recording on the on the lightning.
